{"id":2306,"date":"2009-09-12T12:36:12","date_gmt":"2009-09-12T16:36:12","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/fryeblog.blog.lib.mcmaster.ca\/?p=2306"},"modified":"2009-09-12T12:36:12","modified_gmt":"2009-09-12T16:36:12","slug":"adamson-and-chrusch-bothand","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/","title":{"rendered":"Adamson and Chrusch: “Both\/And”"},"content":{"rendered":"

<\/em>\u00a0\"paradoxImages2\"<\/p>\n

This exchange in the Comments\u00a0between Clayton Chrusch and Joe Adamson regarding Joe’s <\/strong>Jacob and the Angel<\/strong><\/a> post deserves highlighting.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

Clayton Chrusch<\/cite> Says:
\nSeptember 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm<\/a> e<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve been following along the podcast of Calvin\u2019s Institutes<\/em><\/a> made available by Princeton Theological Seminary, and though Calvin has little to do with Frye, I\u2019m struck by his<\/em> use of both\/and formulations. Especially in his idea that in any human action, there is a double cause \u2013 human will and God\u2019s will.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s hard not to see this kind of formulation as sinister and intellectually illegitimate when it\u2019s being used to to justify the ways of a rather sinister god who decides before any sin and before the foundation of the world who would be saved and who would be damned.<\/p>\n

Frye was certainly consistent in his both\/and approach. Fearful Symmetry<\/em> describes a kind of human freedom that is both free and a working out of an innate pattern (not that different from Calvin, come to think of it). Are these paradoxes illegitimate, or are they just \u201cfudge factors\u201d awaiting further conceptual clarification, or are they actually the most precise way of articulating some realities?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Joe Adamson<\/cite> Says:
\nSeptember 12th, 2009 at 10:44 am<\/a> e<\/p>\n

Ouch, Calvin? Well, the paradox in Frye seems very different from Calvin\u2019s. Frye describes it paradoxically and in different ways because perhaps there is no other way of talking about it, so I don\u2019t see how a book on logic is going to help you out here. Frye is talking about the relationship between human creativity and an otherness of consciousness or spirit, Reality, Nature, something uncreated, something coming from elsewhere, the Logos, the Word, or the \u201corder of words\u201d that is our literary and cultural heritage . . . It is perhaps a paradox like Eliot\u2019s originality\/individual talent vs. tradition. How else do you describe the relationship between the individual and the greater Reality he keeps running up against, whatever that reality is? “The Word and Spirit chapter” in Words with Power<\/em> addresses the issue, where it is described in more interpenetrative terms: since the word and spirit go in both directions: the spirit that descends in Acts, when the Word ascends, allows for a human spiritual response to the Word, and there is the necessity of a similar spiritual response to a secular scripture, that is, literature, a human initiative, man\u2019s revelation to man.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Oscar Wilde <\/em>Says,\u00a0June 20th, 1890<\/a>:<\/p>\n

The way of paradoxes is the way of truth. To test Reality we must see it on the tight-rope. When the Verities become acrobats we can judge them.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u00a0 This exchange in the Comments\u00a0between Clayton Chrusch and Joe Adamson regarding Joe’s Jacob and the Angel post deserves highlighting. Clayton Chrusch Says: September 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm e I\u2019ve been following along the podcast of Calvin\u2019s Institutes made available by Princeton Theological Seminary, and though Calvin has little to do with Frye, I\u2019m […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":20,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2306","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nAdamson and Chrusch: "Both\/And" - The Educated Imagination<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Adamson and Chrusch: "Both\/And" - The Educated Imagination\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"\u00a0 This exchange in the Comments\u00a0between Clayton Chrusch and Joe Adamson regarding Joe’s Jacob and the Angel post deserves highlighting. Clayton Chrusch Says: September 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm e I\u2019ve been following along the podcast of Calvin\u2019s Institutes made available by Princeton Theological Seminary, and though Calvin has little to do with Frye, I\u2019m […]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Educated Imagination\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-09-12T16:36:12+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"594\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"699\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Michael Happy\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Michael Happy\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"2 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Michael Happy\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#\/schema\/person\/666be62a4e8014df67296baeeaf4db95\"},\"headline\":\"Adamson and Chrusch: “Both\/And”\",\"datePublished\":\"2009-09-12T16:36:12+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\"},\"wordCount\":445,\"commentCount\":7,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"http:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\",\"name\":\"Adamson and Chrusch: \\\"Both\/And\\\" - The Educated Imagination\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"http:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2009-09-12T16:36:12+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#\/schema\/person\/666be62a4e8014df67296baeeaf4db95\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg\",\"width\":594,\"height\":699},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Adamson and Chrusch: “Both\/And”\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/\",\"name\":\"The Educated Imagination\",\"description\":\"A Website Dedicated to Northrop Frye\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#\/schema\/person\/666be62a4e8014df67296baeeaf4db95\",\"name\":\"Michael Happy\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fe523aceeb39b65793575d0523e67cb779a13050efa89e2284a05c0d0a141aa9?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fe523aceeb39b65793575d0523e67cb779a13050efa89e2284a05c0d0a141aa9?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fe523aceeb39b65793575d0523e67cb779a13050efa89e2284a05c0d0a141aa9?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Michael Happy\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/author\/michaelhappy\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Adamson and Chrusch: \"Both\/And\" - The Educated Imagination","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Adamson and Chrusch: \"Both\/And\" - The Educated Imagination","og_description":"\u00a0 This exchange in the Comments\u00a0between Clayton Chrusch and Joe Adamson regarding Joe’s Jacob and the Angel post deserves highlighting. Clayton Chrusch Says: September 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm e I\u2019ve been following along the podcast of Calvin\u2019s Institutes made available by Princeton Theological Seminary, and though Calvin has little to do with Frye, I\u2019m […]","og_url":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/","og_site_name":"The Educated Imagination","article_published_time":"2009-09-12T16:36:12+00:00","og_image":[{"width":594,"height":699,"url":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Michael Happy","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Michael Happy","Est. reading time":"2 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/"},"author":{"name":"Michael Happy","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#\/schema\/person\/666be62a4e8014df67296baeeaf4db95"},"headline":"Adamson and Chrusch: “Both\/And”","datePublished":"2009-09-12T16:36:12+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/"},"wordCount":445,"commentCount":7,"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"http:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg","inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/","url":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/","name":"Adamson and Chrusch: \"Both\/And\" - The Educated Imagination","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"http:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg","datePublished":"2009-09-12T16:36:12+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#\/schema\/person\/666be62a4e8014df67296baeeaf4db95"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2009\/09\/paradoxImages2.jpg","width":594,"height":699},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/2009\/09\/12\/adamson-and-chrusch-bothand\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Adamson and Chrusch: “Both\/And”"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/","name":"The Educated Imagination","description":"A Website Dedicated to Northrop Frye","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/#\/schema\/person\/666be62a4e8014df67296baeeaf4db95","name":"Michael Happy","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fe523aceeb39b65793575d0523e67cb779a13050efa89e2284a05c0d0a141aa9?s=96&d=mm&r=g","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fe523aceeb39b65793575d0523e67cb779a13050efa89e2284a05c0d0a141aa9?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fe523aceeb39b65793575d0523e67cb779a13050efa89e2284a05c0d0a141aa9?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Michael Happy"},"url":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/author\/michaelhappy\/"}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2306","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/20"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2306"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2306\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2306"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2306"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/macblog.mcmaster.ca\/fryeblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2306"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}